Speaking of religion and politics

[AspiringDude]

Ok, since the tone between us is quickly getting more snide and emotionally laden, I am bowing out here. My opinion and yours do match in many places and not at all in others. I can accept that. See you on the board and...
Peace

[BikerDude]

Ok, since the tone between us is quickly getting more snide and emotionally laden, I am bowing out here. My opinion and yours do match in many places and not at all in others. I can accept that. See you on the board and...
Peace

I actually thought I was being pretty polite.

[AspiringDude]

Actually, I was talking more of myself. I felt myself get agitated too much and that is just not necessary. Hope we're still cool

[Hominid]

I've just read this whole thread, watched most of the videos, and I have to say - people like Biker Dude, myself, and many others are at the edges of society; we're people who think for ourselves, without bending to ANY social, political, or religious pressure to conform.  Because we refuse to join any club, church, political party, or what have you, there's very little representation of such - what I believe to be - common sense.  My own approach is to listen to the atheists, and use some of their well articulated arguments against religion.  I just don't swallow their strident full frontal attack on religion... such as Sam Harris who thinks we should blow up the middle east.

BD - you've said things way better than I could have.  Saved me a lot of typing.  ;-)

[BikerDude]

I've just read this whole thread, watched most of the videos, and I have to say - people like Biker Dude, myself, and many others are at the edges of society; we're people who think for ourselves, without bending to ANY social, political, or religious pressure to conform.  Because we refuse to join any club, church, political party, or what have you, there's very little representation of such - what I believe to be - common sense.  My own approach is to listen to the atheists, and use some of their well articulated arguments against religion.  I just don't swallow their strident full frontal attack on religion... such as Sam Harris who thinks we should blow up the middle east.

BD - you've said things way better than I could have.  Saved me a lot of typing.  ;-)

TY
I have always been someone who has ducked every discussion of religion in any social situation.
That has changed.
In my lifetime the tone of the religious has changed greatly.
I really believe we MUST begin to meet intolerance with intolerance or we will lose.
I am talking about our basic freedoms here Dude!
Across this line.....

[AspiringDude]

Ok, doing this against my better judgement here...
I just want to clarify something.
I value my mental independence greatly. These days, being able to think for oneself is a valuable ability, especially when everyone wants you to fall in line.
Now, I can only speak from an outsider's perspective, since in Germany, anyone trying to push a religious agenda in politics would quickly be met with ridicule and scorn.
I, too, am worried about what happens in the USA. The separation of church and state must be upheld at all costs. And I completely agree that religion has no place in politics.
Just to make that clear. I am absolutely, zero percent on the side of the nutjobs.

But as much as the thought of a theocratic USA frightens me, I am equally terrified of a world without even the allowance to mention anything that is irrational or not scientifically backed, even in fiction. Both are places I'd rather die than to live in.

[BikerDude]

Ok, doing this against my better judgement here...
I just want to clarify something.
I value my mental independence greatly. These days, being able to think for oneself is a valuable ability, especially when everyone wants you to fall in line.
Now, I can only speak from an outsider's perspective, since in Germany, anyone trying to push a religious agenda in politics would quickly be met with ridicule and scorn.
I, too, am worried about what happens in the USA. The separation of church and state must be upheld at all costs. And I completely agree that religion has no place in politics.
Just to make that clear. I am absolutely, zero percent on the side of the nutjobs.

We get it Dude.

[DigitalBuddha]

Ok, doing this against my better judgement here...
I just want to clarify something.
I value my mental independence greatly. These days, being able to think for oneself is a valuable ability, especially when everyone wants you to fall in line.
Now, I can only speak from an outsider's perspective, since in Germany, anyone trying to push a religious agenda in politics would quickly be met with ridicule and scorn.
I, too, am worried about what happens in the USA. The separation of church and state must be upheld at all costs. And I completely agree that religion has no place in politics.
Just to make that clear. I am absolutely, zero percent on the side of the nutjobs.

We get it Dude.

Why does religion have no place in politics? If a person has heart felt deep beliefs, why shouldn't she or he have the right to vote, run for office and express opinions based on sincere religious beliefs? That is called democracy for ALL, not just the non-religious.

If my religion is Dudeism, should I be excluded from politics because of such?

[Hominid]

Not when public policy is influenced by religion. Example: the right wingers want to tell you what your kids learn in school (i.e. creationism, homosexuals are damned to hell, etc.)  I'm not OK with that.  It's the hidden agenda of any seriously religious person in politics to influence political decisions with their opinions of how the world should turn.

DB refers to them as dominionists... they wants God's dominion to extend to the entire country, essentially creating a theocracy.

[DigitalBuddha]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

[Hominid]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

Ya, I meant BD - Biker Dude.   That's my dyslexia for you...

I think the import of what I'm trying to say is this: keep church and state separate. If someone's religious opinion becomes their political platform, then they're imposing their personal beliefs on others who may not agree, as in the case of classrooms ONLY teaching creationism. That simple.

We've been tyrannized by the religious long enough, and they do NOT have a corner on morality, which is their argument for keeping God in the classrooms. It's time common sense and scientific facts ruled. I'm not saying anyone of any faith shouldn't hold public office, or design our children's school curriculum... I'm just opposed to having religion shoved down society's throat.

[DigitalBuddha]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

I'm just opposed to having religion shoved down society's throat.

As dudeists, we are way too much into slacking to achieve that.

[BikerDude]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

It would broaden the dialog and let people decide for themselves.
But religion has been "out of bounds" for criticism for much too long.
As far as I'm concerned we have been conditioned to accept a lot of things that we shouldn't.
People are so conditioned that we actually have "debates" about the merits of certain religious beliefs that if not classified as religion would be on face value absurd.
For instance the contention that a God created everything. The entire universe.
What people fail to mention in all the "debating" about evolution and astro physics and all the usual irrelevant non sense is that this very belief stems from a bronze age view of the natural universe.
At the time when the bible was written people believed that the earth hung from a gilded chain and the moon and sun revolved around it. The stars were holes in a dark cloak.
So here we are 2000 years later and people feel perfectly justified clinging to the idea of a God creator despite the fact that the entire fairy tail from which it comes is easily seen as ridiculous.
If people feel that they should elect someone who's stated goal is to "take back America" in the name of this sort of non sense then clearly they should be able to.
But the choice should be put in context. If religion insists on elbowing it's way into politics then it needs to be "brought to the matt".

And I will state my personal opinion that it is tragic that we are at a place where these beliefs essentially stand as a prerequisite to high office. For me I am much closer to classifying them as a disqualification for high office. Not in any official sense but I am unlikely to vote for anyone who manages to hold this non sense in high regard. I simply can't trust someone who displays such an intellect.

Albert Einstein
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."

I actually think and hope that religion is likely to undergo some tough skating in the years ahead.
Trust me, if religion became a hindrance rather than a help in gaining public office you'd see politicians drop the religious non sense in a heartbeat. At least half of it is pure pandering just like it is from preachers and every other type of snake oil salesman.
For those who didn't they'd just be in the same boat as anybody who isn't a christian now.

I don't have a problem personally with religions that don't have a deity.
Of course it's also a pretty good example. When do you suppose we will have a Buddhist president?
Don't hold your breath. Not as long as the American Taliban remains on the rise.

[Hominid]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

I'm just opposed to having religion shoved down society's throat.

As dudeists, we are way too much into slacking to achieve that.

I'll never accuse Dudeism of being a serious religion; that on top of the fact we preach non-preachiness, leaves Dudeism far from ever being accused of influencing politics (or society) in a negative manner. As a matter of fact, the more society adopts the philosophy of Taoism, the better off we'd be. No inquisitions, no roadside bombs, no ethnic cleansings.

[BikerDude]

But would that not exclude a hell of a lot of people from politics in societies everywhere thus creating a "tyranny of the non-religious" over the religious? And who decides what is religion? Is atheism a religion? Is Buddhism a religion? Communism? Or, is religion limited to believing in a deity? Many religions have no central deity.

Also, Hominid dude; "DB refers to them as "dominionists?" Me, or a different DB? Not sure of what that is.

IMHDO

I'm just opposed to having religion shoved down society's throat.

As dudeists, we are way too much into slacking to achieve that.

I'll never accuse Dudeism of being a serious religion; that on top of the fact we preach non-preachiness, leaves Dudeism far from ever being accused of influencing politics (or society) in a negative manner. As a matter of fact, the more society adopts the philosophy of Taoism, the better off we'd be. No inquisitions, no roadside bombs, no ethnic cleansings.

Here here Dude!
May we all spark a fatty in celebration.
Or hoist an oat soda.