How and why I left christianity (evangelicalism to be exact...)

[The Guro]

You get no disagreement with me on that point at all.

Christians, more often than not, cop out on there even being a standard when they are called to it. They fall back on vague generalities that allow them to write their own rules for fear of there actually being something they can't squiggle out of in the guise of "interpretations". To say it's difficult removes from them the responsibility to let it interpret itself (inductive study) and understand what it's saying verse using it to support what they want it to say.

I am not a Trinitarian myself... So I dig what the Dudely Lama and the the Arch Dudeship laid out in reference to the Council of Nicea in the Abide Guide (p68) (it's irrefutable really... so that makes me a heretic... Arianism I believe... me and you are equally damned by Roman Catholic accounts... lol). My intent as a Dudeist Priest who abides in Christ is to simply promote the Dudeliness of my Lord (not God) Jesus Christ and work to remove the dust off the First Draft in reference to it contributing to Dudeism. And while I have my point of reference grounded in that... I am cool with someone else being where they are (it's their deal not mine).

So do you think we can move forward given that my focus is the Dudeway in light of First Draft Christianity? As the Dudeism FAQ says (It is written!)...

Q: Is there a God in Dudeism?

A: Like Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism, Dudeism is a non-theistic religion. That isn?t to say Dudeists necessarily don?t believe in God or a godlike power in the universe, only that passing judgment on this issue is not one of Dudeism?s goals. Like the Eastern religions just mentioned, Dudeism is interested in the here and now, not the there and then. The Dudeist objective is to make our lives more pleasant and meaningful to ourselves and each other.

In other words... I am not here (in this forum) to lay out Theism or evangelize as a Christian (I can do that if I choose on my own site... This site is for Dudeism)... but to promote Jesus and First Draft Christianities contributions as they align with being a Dudeist (let me know if I cross that line:)

But as it is, the "The Jesus" forum is cluttered with off topic anti-theism/anti-Christian content that in no way supports the goal of the thread. If you want to see Christians stop being so uptight... that's not the way to accomplish it. That's my only concern... you can find a on-topic/general area of the forum and say whatever you want regarding your opinion or facts about the evils/un-dudely acts of PEOPLE in Christianity and leave this section to discuss the TEACHINGS that do align with Dudeism:)

I am eager to embrace the DudeWay in this manner...

Can we get a reset or fresh start on "The Jesus" section and try again? Admin's? Is that possible? Clean slate for "The Jesus"?

Now... Let us Abide,

The Christian Dude

[Hominid]

This has been hashed over many times. It's becoming tiresome. There is very good reason why all these "anti theism" threads end up at the same place. If you don't get it, then no one can explain it to you. Coming from your world view, it takes a paradigm shift to really "get it".  Been there.  The truth you believe in should always be challenged by new shit that has come to light.   Let that be your motto, and you'll do okay.

[The Guro]

I don't really see anything I said being addressed or acknowledged in your reply. What place are they ending up? WWTDD?

Saying, "Coming from your world view, it takes a paradigm shift to really "get it"", implies that I am unenlightened and in need of a paradigm shift to be freed of something limiting my understanding. But here I am saying that within Dudeism... by all accounts I have seen... there is no place for regarding others that way.

I get it... People were fed information that they just accepted at face value from the pulpit, Sunday School, media, what have you... And when they either had a moment to actually give it some thought, had someone who had give it some thought against it... Or got wiped out when they found their "beliefs" were about as solid as quicksand... Or they were "blessed" by some pedophile... etc... They decided they either hate God, he/or any god doesn't exist... or whatever... The intrinsic value of what can be utilized to live in a more Dudely fashion is not in any way diminished no matter what the source...

Philippians 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

There is no positive spin possible for spending anytime at all producing negative energy demeaning, attacking, being bigoted/prejudiced against others beliefs. Not when we can focus on applying positive energy towards taking it easy and ruminating on things leading to a better life.

A good motto... the desire to seek truth should override the desire to be (or think you're) right... The paradigm shift I experienced brought me a deeper knowledge of my "world view" that put me at odds with accepted "dogma" and resulting in a stronger foundation not full of confusion and contradiction.

Now Dudeism has brought on a deeper reflection on what that world view should present to the world in my attidude. This should be the central goal to every Dudeists own personal Dudeway... to the point that as Brother D said to me, "So there's Christian dudes, hindudes, Buddudes etc, which is cool, unless they use their belief to judge others, then they become undude and that shit just don't fly round these parts". I think that goes for the agnostics and atheists too.

We should be hard to tell apart within the manifestation of our Thankie to the universe. Stripping away the God vs. No God(s) from our being as it pertains to Dudeism... To Paraphrase Morpheus, "Do you believe that whether or not there are gods has anything to do Dudeism or with your walk as a Dude in this place?" The need to attack or ridicule those beliefs is... Fuck it. "If you don't get it, then no one can explain it to you." 

Cheers

[Reverend Al]

I personally agree that Dudeists shouldn't demean, attack, insult, or otherwise express negativity towards other people and/or their beliefs in general.  If someone wants to follow Christianity, or Judaism, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so be it.  But if people have had negative experiences with any of those organizations, it's human nature to want to share them with others.

Most of us here have dabbled in those religions and, for one reason or another, found them to be unsatisfying; extremely so, in some cases.  Others have found a way to incorporate some of their previous beliefs into their understanding of Dudeism.  And that's cool if it works for them and doesn't conflict with Dudeist beliefs.  But, and I mention this with all due respect ChristianDude, all of your posts so far appear to be strongly advocating the infusion of Christian tenets into Dudeism, and that won't work for the majority of us here.  Yes, there are Christian Dudes, Hindu Dudes, Buddhist Dudes, Pagan Dudes (well, at least one, anyway), and so on, but they are Dudeists first and foremost.

Is there value in Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and/or whatever other isms you can think of?  I believe there is, to some degree; wisdom is wisdom regardless of whether it comes from the Bible, the Torah, or something someone anonymously scribbled on the wall of a public rest room.  Of course, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.  The difficult part is in the way we incorporate that wisdom into Dudeism.  What I mean is, if you go around quoting the Bible, you're labeled as a Christian.  If you go around quoting the Torah, you're labeled as a Jew.  There's nothing wrong with that, but we're not Christians or Jews.  We're Dudeists.  Granted, "Dudeism" is ill-defined at the moment, but the slowest-growing religion in the world is still a work-in-progress.

[The Guro]

Perfect:)

I am not looking for infusion... just inclusion of Dudeist supporting wisdom from that particular influence... sans the overt Theism (and hopefully unimpeded by trolling). As far as the quotes... that is just my personal strongest source of WFTO and frame of reference for my Dudeism. Movies come in as a close second:)

I come from a varied background to include the martial arts... in fact... the most Dudetastic martial arts ever IMHO... Jeet Kune Do (JKD). It also came from a variety of influences (26 originally) and is plagued by dissenters over what is original... and this person spends too much time in this aspect... that person added number 27 a screwed it all up... All the while people missing the point that JKD is a personal expression of an individuals path that is merely guided by principles that vary in application for each individual... Pretty Dudeistic right!

?Its like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.? ~ Bruce Lee
(I think he should make the list of Great Dudes in History for sure!)

Thanks for the solid Dude-clarification Reverend Al :)

[Hominid]

As far as the quotes... that is just my personal strongest source of WFTO and frame of reference for my Dudeism. Movies come in as a close second:)

Just for clarification please: in your world view, which comes first - Dudeism, or Christianity?  Simple question, and... I'm not baiting you, so a simple answer would be appreciated.  Your posts are well articulated and non-reactive/emotional. 

[The Guro]

Just for clarification please: in your world view, which comes first - Dudeism, or Christianity?  Simple question, and... I'm not baiting you, so a simple answer would be appreciated.  Your posts are well articulated and non-reactive/emotional.

Simple answer... Yes :)

Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter. The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and attidude... abiding. "Passing judgment on this issue is not one of Dudeism's goals".

Christianity, should I be considered a Christian by some, guides my desire to be a good dude based on my conclusion that there is something more than the here and now. And a being... a Stranger to some... that would like me to follow a few suggestions as to how to do it better. And in Christianity's case... since we could not do it if our after lives depended on it... he gave us a Dude for all days and times to make the path less uptight and dependant on our own efforts... enabling us to be Takin' 'er easy. Passing judgment on this issue is not a Christians' place... You know a lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what-have-yous... and none of it is up to my opinion.

So they are both seperate... and synergistic in my world view.

[Hominid]

Smart ass.

;-)

[DigitalBuddha]

Just for clarification please: in your world view, which comes first - Dudeism, or Christianity?  Simple question, and... I'm not baiting you, so a simple answer would be appreciated.  Your posts are well articulated and non-reactive/emotional.

Simple answer... Yes

Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter. The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and attidude... abiding. "Passing judgment on this issue is not one of Dudeism's goals".

Is that some kind of Eastern thing? 

[The Guro]

:)

[Brother D]

From what I can tell, in this case, (correct me if I'm wrong), Christianity came first, dude second.

This is common to all, as dudeism arose from Taoism among others, even before we came to it, though influence can be found anywhere.

As with many religions and worldviews, take what you want from teachings of prophets, ministers, clerics etc, but IMO, the only person who can save you, is yourself ultimately, no one or no thing, can do it for you. No amount of reading self help books, religious texts or evangelism will make you live a righteous fulfilling life unless you are prepared to practice whatever truth you hold dear.

Belief in yourself to live a good life and do the right thing, ethically and morally etc, IMO, is better than putting your faith in a higher power that has seemingly forsaken it's creation.

This whole first draft Christianity thing, is Jesus's take on the teachings of John the Baptist, much like the dudeist take on Taoist ideals.

Now I apologise for any confusion or offence, I am by no means an expert and am not judging, but just think that all faiths can't be right, except for the whole "do no harm" thing.

Abidingly,

Brother D.

[The Guro]

It was known as "The Way" before it was labeled Christianity... funny enough.

I believe that Dudeism provides "The Way" and whatever else is floating your boat on the things Dudeism doesn't care about is "The Why".

The Dudely Lama put paper to pen so to speak on his realization of the Dudeist Way based on the filter of his own philosophical what have you... and what he saw as a great expression of it. Obviously heavily seasoned with Taoism (The Way) in his case. When I see The Dude... I see the great expression of mine, all of us, if we find value in our influences rather than seeking a completely new one will see this as the ideal of our "Way". Once again bring my thinking back around to the Great Dude Who Came Before... Sigung Bruce Lee. Jeet Kune Do was "A Way"... What most people think of as JKD is "his" way and not meant to be theirs. Jeet Kune Do is meant to be the finger pointing to "their" way... Don't get fixated on the finger.

Living, Faith, etc... Nay! I say Abiding... is a verb. Without action (or in some cases inaction) there is nothing.

All the rest is definitely... That?s just like, your opinion, man:)

I don't feel forsaken ...and from a purely literary perspective of the text supplied, the assessment of John the Baptist to Jesus would definitely be incorrect... anything outside of the text is definitely anyone's opinion (aka private interpretation; idios, one's own) over the inductive study of what was revealed in the "story" much like any analysis outside the scope of the script of "The Big Lebowski" regarding anything not revealed. As far as which faith is right is irrelevant... whether or not someone is walking the path and abiding is the issue (as much as their "Why" lends itself to manifesting as such and they choose to operate in "their Way). Someone can everything 100% right and be of no effect (or a paraquat) if they do not walk the path (as you said very well).

We can almost sum up Dudeism in much the same way as George Carlin summed up Christianity

Don't be an Asshole/Paraquat

Abiding together in the "The Way" of Dudeism and not fighting over "The Why" of each of our Dudeism is the path of being great Compeers... that may or may not share a common "Why"... But it's always cool to have an honest interest really digging other Styles while being true to your own.

I had to come back and add... Even if The Dude or The Dudely Lama himself went full paraquat... The Way... Dudeism is unblemished. And it is self correcting as much as people are able to look at their "Way" in light of the very loosely defined principles of Dudeism... Are they "Abiding"?

You have all been lounging here longer than me... am I on the right track for my "Dudeway"?

[Brother D]

Yes, you are on the right track, you are within your rights to question your path and it's quite dudely to help others with their own if warranted. Everyone abides in their own way.

I was curious about what you said regarding first draft Christianity and chose to follow that rabbit hole using history as a basis. I found that pre baptism, Jesus was much the same, trying to find his own way in a harsh world/society, post baptism and after jtb's death, chose to continue his work as he saw fit in his own way, just so happens, people listened.

I am no biblical scholar, so I guess, like the dude, the Jesus, was a man for his time and place. There are alot of agnostics around, that have moved from one faith or another and ended up here, but IMO, no one can 100% prove or disprove anything and to paraphrase some philosophist "the only thing I know, is that I know nothing".

[RandoRock]

I dig your story, Dude! It's pretty similar to the way I came to find Dudeism, the never ending quest for enlightenment...or something like that.

[Reverend Al]

...I am not looking for infusion... just inclusion of Dudeist supporting wisdom from that particular influence... sans the overt Theism (and hopefully unimpeded by trolling)...

Works for me.  Thanks for clearing that up.

...I come from a varied background to include the martial arts... in fact... the most Dudetastic martial arts ever IMHO... Jeet Kune Do (JKD). It also came from a variety of influences (26 originally) and is plagued by dissenters over what is original... and this person spends too much time in this aspect... that person added number 27 a screwed it all up... All the while people missing the point that JKD is a personal expression of an individuals path that is merely guided by principles that vary in application for each individual... Pretty Dudeistic right!

I have made comparisons between Dudeism and Jeet Kune Do myself...in my mind, anyway.  Bruce Lee realized there was a lot of "waste" present in the various martial arts disciplines--actions that did not flow naturally, served no real purpose, and expended the disciple's energies needlessly during combat--so he kept what worked and discarded what didn't; "Casting off what is useless," as he put it.  And that's what I perceive Dudeism to be--using whatever works to make your life happier, easier, simpler, more satisfying, less stressful, and diminishing or eliminating any bullshit that prevents that from happening.

...Thanks for the solid Dude-clarification Reverend Al

You're welcome.  But, just to be clear, I'm just another asshole with thoughts and opinions.  I think I have a fairly decent handle on what Dudeism is, or should be, but I could easily be wrong.  And that's one of the valuable things about this forum--the other members will definitely let you know if your toe slips over the line.

...Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter. The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and attidude... abiding...

I think the thing that really separates Dudeism from other religions, especially the so-called Western religions, is motivation.  In my experience Christians (in all of their manifest forms) do what they do (when they're behaving themselves, that is) because they're either trying to win that Golden Ticket into Heaven, or because they're afraid of spending eternity burning in the fiery pits of Hell.  They're not as concerned with this life as they are with what will happen to them after this life.  Conversely, most Dudeists either don't know if there will be an afterlife, or believe there won't be one, so we're motivated to make this life the best it can be simply because it's what we know.

...Now I apologise for any confusion or offence, I am by no means an expert and am not judging, but just think that all faiths can't be right, except for the whole "do no harm" thing.

I've come to the same conclusion.  I think every religion currently known has a few pieces of the puzzle right, but they've got the "big picture" wrong.

...There are alot of agnostics around, that have moved from one faith or another and ended up here, but IMO, no one can 100% prove or disprove anything and to paraphrase some philosophist "the only thing I know, is that I know nothing".

Mark it eight, Dudes.