the dude and walter

[rev-jaholbrook]

Revpurdy and pikasonic bring up very good points. I can see how they can be considered the Yin and Yang.  And I completely agree that we all should find a middle ground and know when to be more dude and say Fuck it and don the shades... And know when to be more Walter and take control of things.  But at either end of that we still should strive to keep balance.  Just my opinion or whatever.

[jgiffin]

Now that's interesting, dudes. I hadn't considered a dualist/yin-yang relationship between the Dude and Walter. I viewed them as part of a triumvirate with Donny: Walter symbolized the god of Moses (Torah/Old Testament), the Dude symbolized Jesus (New Testament), and Donny symbolized the Holy Ghost (I dunno where that thing started - overworked, underpaid, theory-pressed clerics circa Aquinas). And it was cool because the pattern of threes neatly paralleled most classical religions and the movie (three holes in a bowling ball, three nihilists, etc).

But, if we also view the characters as reciprocally defining in a thesis/anti-thesis (Hegelian) sense, which seems appropriate given the valid points you dudes make, that...uh, well...man, it's complicated. You just added a lot of new shit that needs to be filtered through the, uh, uh, system. I gotta work out a 6x6 matrix or something.

By the way, first post. Sorry if it's verboten to resurrect old philosophical discussions - but, hell, we still discuss Socrates and that dude hasn't published shit in years. I trust the Dude would agree its preferable to ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

[skepticalshely]

Maybe I'm off base trying to find a single source to attribute each character to. Everyone says The Dude is Jesus H. Christ.

But Walter isn't so easy. Abraham? Moses? The Rambam? My best guess is King David. Since the only famed convert in the Bible is Ruth and Ruth is King David's great-grandmother it still sort of works. Walter and David are both war heros having been down in the muck and all. They're concerned with the Law but they're both sinners.

Donny is also difficult. He is obviously the Walrus. As he confesses several times. But who exactly is the Walrus? If you have to choose an actual man who has lived and breathed to represent Eastern thought it who have to be Prince Sidharta, the Buddha. I think Donny is 100% Buddha compatible.

[meekon5]

Maybe I'm off base trying to find a single source to attribute each character to. Everyone says The Dude is Jesus H. Christ.

I'm sorry who says this. I certainly don't.

As explained before I am defiantly against the christianisation of Dudeism.

We have recently discussed the fact that the Coens don't hide christian symbolism in their films, and don't understand the Dudeism concept.

The religion of Dudeism is based in Taoism and Zen not christianity.

It is not an iconic religion.

Christianity is not the only religion.

But Walter isn't so easy. Abraham? Moses? The Rambam? My best guess is King David. Since the only famed convert in the Bible is Ruth and Ruth is King David's great-grandmother it still sort of works. Walter and David are both war heros having been down in the muck and all. They're concerned with the Law but they're both sinners.

Why draw a comparison to biblical stories at all. Why make comparison with the bible at all. Why make comparison with any religious (including Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Jain, Tiki, Norse Pagan) story or figures.

The story stands alone as an item in itself.

Why can't the Dude just be the Dude?

Why can't Donny just be Donny?

And Walter just be Walter?

Making  Dudeism a religion is not making Dudeism christianity, or islam, or any other religion. Dudeism like the Dude just is Dudeism, not other religions.

Donny is also difficult. He is obviously the Walrus. As he confesses several times. But who exactly is the Walrus? If you have to choose an actual man who has lived and breathed to represent Eastern thought it who have to be Prince Sidharta, the Buddha. I think Donny is 100% Buddha compatible.

No you are making Donny difficult, stop obsessing about the symbolism of the walrus.

Making Dudeism a religion it has its own symbolism it does not need to borrow from other religions.

Sorry but I find this whole process vacuous and pointless.

[jgiffin]

The perspectives can be reconciled. As you said, meekon, TBL and dudeism are two different things. Therefore, analyzing TBL and finding (or, in many instances, forcing) christian, buddhist, Freudian, feminist, or other structural parallels isn't the same as trying to graft those symbols onto dudeism.

At least I hope not. Because it would be sad and counterproductive to make dudeism more like christianity, et al. The attraction of dudeism rests, at least partly, in it being so very different (less iconic, less dogmatic, less...well, less everything so bullshit) from more established religions.

[BikerDude]

The attraction of dudeism rests, at least partly, in it being so very different (less iconic, less dogmatic, less...well, less everything so bullshit) from more established religions.

Right on!
I dig your style Dude.

[skepticalshely]

The perspectives can be reconciled. As you said, meekon, TBL and dudeism are two different things. Therefore, analyzing TBL and finding (or, in many instances, forcing) christian, buddhist, Freudian, feminist, or other structural parallels isn't the same as trying to graft those symbols onto dudeism.

At least I hope not. Because it would be sad and counterproductive to make dudeism more like christianity, et al. The attraction of dudeism rests, at least partly, in it being so very different (less iconic, less dogmatic, less...well, less everything so bullshit) from more established religions.

I agree wholeheartedly dude, the symbols I'm refering to are like the symbols that our words are. They don't define TBL but they convey meanings that belong to the ages. Instead of a cute 90 minute picture show, it's a microcosm of the universe and all of it's history. When Donny says "I am the Walrus" I see a critique on millenia of eastern thought. Donny's flaws are it's flaws. The Dude's flaws are Christianity's flaws. Walter's flaws are Judaism''s flaws. No wonder TBL leaves us searching for a new religion, man.