Here's my worry.....

[ispamforfood]

What makes members of this church, ANY church, "legally" authorized to perform marriages?  Can I just decide to make a church tomorrow, throw up a simple website, name it The Church of Bullshit, and name myself pastor? Is that legal?  Is that what was done in this case? I've read that the only designation the US gives is tax-exempt status, which apparently isn't "required..." unless you're taking donations.  Does Dudeism have tax-exempt status? I mean, technically, that alone should guarantee rights.  But in the absence of it, does the mere fact that you call yourself a church legalize you? Do you have to incorporate? What's the deal? 

I'm really trying to cover all the bases here....  I guess I want more than anecdotal evidence of LTD's legality, u know?  Everything looks official on the ordination, but still, are we sure it's legal? At least in most places? I mean, if it doesn't qualify as a church for whatever reason, then already we could conclude that our ordinations are in fact not real... If however, all you technically need to prove youre a church is by CALLING yourself a church, then I reckon it is legal. 

I know it SHOULDNT matter but for someone who wishes to provide a truly legal service for people, it is a valid concern.

[forumdude]

in fact it's all very complicated. suffice to say that we're not currently tax exempt and are weighing the pros and cons of going that route. but due to the separation of church and state in the US it's not necessary. many christian churches in fact balk at the idea that they need to be sanctioned by the government because that essentially brings the money changers into the temple or what have you.

as we've pointed out, it's really up to each state to decide on a case by case basis whether a religion is "real" or not. it's all very vague. even with tax exempt status there are county clerks who won't recognize a religion that isn't 2000 years old.

the line is very fuzzy. in truth anyone can start their own religion. whether the government "recognizes" is is another story. but it's likely that even the oddest, smallest religion would stand up in a court of law as real if the person running it seems to be sincere. that's only in the US, of course. most other countries are much stricter when it comes to religious freedom.

suffice to say that the huge amount of followers we have (nearing 100,000), the active members and contributors, publications, published doctrines, press attention, etc. are more than enough to secure the church of the latter-day dude as a "real" religion when push comes to shove.

chances are we will go the tax exempt route sometime soon. it just means that we have to kowtow to the man a bit and deal with lots of paperwork and have regular board meetings and all that. you can understand why there might be some reluctance, given our proclivity to take things easy.

anyway, bottom line is: abide by the opinion of your local county clerk and that should be enough to allay your concerns. the path was blazed by the universal life church - they got sued a lot in the 70s and came out utterly unscathed. kudos to them for that.

if you have any other questions, feel free to email them in: http://www.dudeism.com/contact.html

[ispamforfood]

That's cool, dude. That's cool. :-p

[Rev. Ed C]

even with tax exempt status there are county clerks who won't recognize a religion that isn't 2000 years old.

I'd love for that to be an actual factual figure some fastidious county clerk gave.  Because that excludes both Islam by about 600 years and Christianity by 50-100 years.

"Welcome to Bimillenial County, home of Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Taoists.  If you sees a Christian, a Muslim, a Sikh or one of them Rastafari fellas, you go ahead an just shoot.  Shinto?  Shinto my ass, boy.  There's a spirit in my boot and it's lookin' for a closeup meetin' with the spirits in your teeth!"

Oh the irony   And it's not even that uncommon, I'll bet!

[meekon5]

Actually as I mentioned here:

...Of course in the US you could use these nice people's resources.

I was originally ordained by them quite a few years ago, and a lot of my American Pagan contacts at the time used them for similar purposes (the ability to have Pagan Weddings, etc).

Plus they have some good details on what you can and can't do in which states.

But I think you are going to hit similar problems even using the Universal Church of Light.

Do have a look at their site for local legislation on what it takes to be properly recognised they do have extensive experience in these matters and lots of good info.

[cckeiser]

http://dudeism.com/takeiteasymanifesto.html


By Rev. Dwayne Eutsey
Arch Dudeship

THERE?S A RELIGION for its time and place?It fits right in there, helps us abide through all the strikes and gutters, the ups and downs of the whole durned human comedy. It really ties your life together.

And the religion for our time and place is Dudeism.

Of course, nihilists and reactionaries will probably dispute that?when they?re not throwing marmots into your bathtub or coffee cups at your forehead. That?s why you need to know how to respond when someone who is un-Dude asks you what the fuck you?re talking about when you tell them about Dudeism.

Now, it?s a basic tenet of the Dudeist ethos to just say ?Fuck it,? or ?Yeah, well, that?s just, like, you?re opinion, man,? when someone micturates upon our faith. But we?re talking about unchecked theological aggression here, drawing a line in the spiritual sand, Dude. Across this line you do not?also, Dude, ?faith? is not the preferred nomenclature??worldview,? please.

So, What the Fuck am I Talking About?

Lost my train of thought there. Anyway, in defending whether Dudeism is really a religion, worldview, or what-have-you, a Dudeist must first address a very basic question: What makes a religion? Is it being prepared to do the right thing, whatever the cost? Isn?t that what makes a religion? Or is it that along with a pair of testaments?

Well, Dude, we just don?t know. Religion is a very complicated thing. A lotta scriptural ins, a lotta ritual outs?a lot of ecclesiastical strands to keep in your head, man. There is a lot about religion that doesn?t make a whole lot of sense to us. It can be quite stupefying, in fact. But there are some basic tools that can help put you in a unique position to confirm or disconfirm whether Dudeism is a religion.

First off, it?s good to define what in God?s holy name we?re blathering about when we say the word ?religion?. A wiser fellah than myself once said that ?religion? has its root in the Latin word ?ligo,? or ?to bind together.? That?s a good place to start, I guess, because the tenets of Dudeism do indeed bind its diverse adherents together in one big round robin.

But there are other ways that can help you explain how Dudeism is a religion, and in English, too. Here are just a couple.

All Right, Let?s Get Down to Cases

The beauty of Dudeism is its simplicity. Once a religion gets too complex, everything can go wrong.

That?s why the ?To What/From What/By What Means? method of identifying a religion is a great way to summarize the Dudeist ethos for your un-Dude friends.

For example, if you apply this method to Buddhism (a compeer of Dudeism), you can easily answer what the point of it is.

From what is Buddhism trying to liberate us? Suffering
To what state of being is Buddhism trying to bring us? Nirvana
By what means does Buddhism attempt do this? The Noble Eightfold Path.

Isn?t that fucking interesting, man? Now let?s apply it to Dudeism:

From what is Dudeism trying to liberate us? Thinking that?s too uptight.
To what state of being is Dudeism trying to bring us: Just taking it easy, man.
By what means does Dudeism attempt do this? Abiding.

Now, that?s fucking ingenious, if I understand it correctly.

If You Define It, It Is a DREEMMS 

But what do Dudeists believe? Well, although you have your story and I have mine, there are certain things that bring us together and root us, like the aitz chaim he, in a shared community.

To help me clarify what I?m blathering about, I?ll use the seven dimensions of religion identified by Ninian Smart (another wiser fellah than myself): Doctrinal, Ritual, Ethics, Experiential, Myth, Material, and Social?or, in the parlance of religious studies, DREEMMS).

Doctrinal (the systematic formulation of religious teachings in an intellectually coherent form): Like Zen, Dudeism isn?t into the whole doctrinal thing; we prefer direct experience of takin?er easy, and often contemplate two indiscernible Coens to achieve that modest task.

Perhaps the closest Dudeists come to having a systematic formulation of our religious teachings is: ?Sometimes you eat the bear, and, well, sometimes the bear, he eats you.? Is that some sort of Eastern thing? Far from it, Dude.


Ritual (forms and orders of ceremonies): Dudeists are also not into the whole ritual thing, but there are some things we do for recreation that bring us together, like bowling, driving around, the occasional acid flashback, listening to Creedence. Some Dudeists are shomer shabbas, and that?s cool.

Ethics (rules about human behavior): Although this isn?t ?Nam, there aren?t many behavioral rules in Dudeism, either. However, we do recognize that we may enter a world of pain whenever we go over the line and we are forever cognizant of what can happen when we fuck a stranger in the ass.

Experiential (the core defining personal experience): Abiding and takin?er easy.

Myth (the stories that work on several levels and offer a fairly complete and systematic interpretation of the universe and humanity?s place in it): The Big Lebowski is our founding myth; just as the Christian Gospels, based on the Jesus of history, provide a portrait of the mythical Christ of faith who ?died for all us sinners,? the film, based on the Dude of history (Jeff Dowd), presents the mythical Dude of film (Jeff Bridges) who ?takes it easy for all us sinners.?

Material (ordinary objects or places that symbolize or manifest the sacred or supernatural): That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

Social (a system shared and attitudes practiced by a group. Often rules for identifying community membership and participation): Racially we?re pretty cool and open to pretty much everyone?pacifists, veterans, surfers, fucking lady friends, vaginal artists, video artists with cleft assholes, dancing landlords, doctors who are good men and thorough, enigmatic strangers, brother shamuses?And proud we are of all of them.

Those we consider very un-Dude include: Rug-pissers, brats, nihilists, Nazis, human paraquats, pederasts, pornographers, fucking fascists, reactionaries, and angry cab drivers. Friends like these, huh, Gary?

Aw, Hell. I Done Innerduced Dudeism Enough

Although Dudeists may lack three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax, we do share the great spiritual insights espoused by many great Dudes throughout the ages. As our Dudely Lama once wrapped it all up for us:

?Life is short and complicated and nobody knows what to do about it. So don?t do anything about it. Just take it easy, man. Stop worrying so much whether you?ll make it into the finals. Kick back with some friends and some oat soda and whether you roll strikes or gutters, do your best to be true to yourself and others ? that is to say, abide.?

Knowing that, now you can die with a smile on your face without feelin? like the Good Lord gypped you. And that?s what Dudeism?s all about.

See ya later on down the trail.

Arch Dudeship Dwayne Eutsey is currently founding a Dudeist monastery for Irish monks: The Brotherhood Shamus


Dwayne can be reached at dwayne@dudeism.com



Like the Dudeist Propaganda Images on this page? Products (tee shirts, hoodies, drinkware, etc.) emblazoned with them can be purchased at our Printfection Store.

[meekon5]

cckeiser a point well made sir.

Wise words well placed well done for repeating this.

I have a tendency to chase the argument to the end, but it is good to be reminded of the fundamentals once again.

Thank you for reminding me to read this.

[cckeiser]

cckeiser a point well made sir.

Wise words well placed well done for repeating this.

I have a tendency to chase the argument to the end, but it is good to be reminded of the fundamentals once again.

Thank you for reminding me to read this.

Hey dude, sorry, but I copied the article here in reply to ispamforfood.
Unlike most of you old dudes here I just read it not that long ago so it came to mind when I read his question.

But your are very welcome anyway.
I do what I can.

[meekon5]

Actually I'd forgotten how good this was as a piece of writing.

[forumdude]

yeah, we are lucky to have the arch dudeship in our stable of writers. he is without compeer. make sure to read his "no frame of reference" column at the dudespaper. they're all far out and deeply dudesque.

[Rev. Ed C]

make sure to read his "no frame of reference" column at the dudespaper. they're all far out and deeply dudesque.

In the e-parlance of our time:

*like*
Comment: They really are a fine bunch of ramblings.

[cckeiser]

yeah, we are lucky to have the arch dudeship in our stable of writers. he is without compeer. make sure to read his "no frame of reference" column at the dudespaper. they're all far out and deeply dudesque.

Here's the link for all you dudes who may have found it a little hard to find His Dudeshps writings.

http://dudespaper.com/section/columns/noframe/

Fabulous Stuff! Just Fabulous!

[travelingdude]

While I'm in retreat from up-tightness, I think the following may clarify some confusion:

The "Holy Bible" has performed as a law book since long before there was a 'USA'  and the King's authority is considered to be a grant from Heaven in places like Britain.  (The so-called 'Divine Right of Kings'.) 

Probably one good way to consider legal authority (as separate from lawful authority) is to think about raw, unadulterated power.  If the legislature, parliament or 'king' can decree that I will be born on a certain date and time and with certain very exact characteristics, I may consider he/she/it/them to be my creator and thus, subject to their whims and 'authority'.

But, since I have yet to see proof that any of the aforementioned 'legal' authorities can pull that off, I am forced to simply abide and see what happens. 

In contrast, churches/ministries, etc. which are registered as corporations (including non-profit, etc.) declare themselves to be the property of a legal entity (the corporation) which is a creature created by the government and therefore subject to their whims.

As my authority derives directly from the Big Dude in the Sky (or wherever), I don't worry about this stuff.  It is up to whomever to call up my boss and discuss it, personally.  As a Christian nation (look for the words 'under God' in the founding documents for the USA, for example), they derive from the same authority at most, so we are equals, at worst and as a direct representative, I am superior to them in reality, so it's not worth worrying about. 

It's so nice to be in such good company as you folks.

[Hominid]

While I'm in retreat from up-tightness, I think the following may clarify some confusion:

The "Holy Bible" has performed as a law book since long before there was a 'USA'  and the King's authority is considered to be a grant from Heaven in places like Britain.  (The so-called 'Divine Right of Kings'.) 

Probably one good way to consider legal authority (as separate from lawful authority) is to think about raw, unadulterated power.  If the legislature, parliament or 'king' can decree that I will be born on a certain date and time and with certain very exact characteristics, I may consider he/she/it/them to be my creator and thus, subject to their whims and 'authority'.

But, since I have yet to see proof that any of the aforementioned 'legal' authorities can pull that off, I am forced to simply abide and see what happens. 

In contrast, churches/ministries, etc. which are registered as corporations (including non-profit, etc.) declare themselves to be the property of a legal entity (the corporation) which is a creature created by the government and therefore subject to their whims.

As my authority derives directly from the Big Dude in the Sky (or wherever), I don't worry about this stuff.  It is up to whomever to call up my boss and discuss it, personally.  As a Christian nation (look for the words 'under God' in the founding documents for the USA, for example), they derive from the same authority at most, so we are equals, at worst and as a direct representative, I am superior to them in reality, so it's not worth worrying about. 

It's so nice to be in such good company as you folks.

Dude - welcome to the forum. Pull up a rug and make yerself comfortable.

I hear you.  But for shits and giggles, I too would like to know if my priesthood is legit or not.  I spent the first half of my life tryin' to be "right", and tellin' other people how wrong they were, and now - well... I just love how this whole Dudeism thing harpoons all them up bastards that had me believin' in their bullshit. Fuck it man, let's go bowling.

[DigitalBuddha]

While I'm in retreat from up-tightness, I think the following may clarify some confusion:

The "Holy Bible" has performed as a law book since long before there was a 'USA'  and the King's authority is considered to be a grant from Heaven in places like Britain.  (The so-called 'Divine Right of Kings'.) 

Probably one good way to consider legal authority (as separate from lawful authority) is to think about raw, unadulterated power.  If the legislature, parliament or 'king' can decree that I will be born on a certain date and time and with certain very exact characteristics, I may consider he/she/it/them to be my creator and thus, subject to their whims and 'authority'.

But, since I have yet to see proof that any of the aforementioned 'legal' authorities can pull that off, I am forced to simply abide and see what happens. 

In contrast, churches/ministries, etc. which are registered as corporations (including non-profit, etc.) declare themselves to be the property of a legal entity (the corporation) which is a creature created by the government and therefore subject to their whims.

As my authority derives directly from the Big Dude in the Sky (or wherever), I don't worry about this stuff.  It is up to whomever to call up my boss and discuss it, personally.  As a Christian nation (look for the words 'under God' in the founding documents for the USA, for example), they derive from the same authority at most, so we are equals, at worst and as a direct representative, I am superior to them in reality, so it's not worth worrying about. 

It's so nice to be in such good company as you folks.

Welcome, dude, to our beach community of full time slackers. Grab a rug and abide. Bar's over there.