What I fear though, is that if the vehicle of religion was removed for all these haters, war mongers, oppressors, and abusers to use as their means to propagate their agendas, would they not find some other means of expressing their un-evolved, greedy, self-centeredness?  It's my understanding of human nature that makes me fearful of the Hitlers of the world.

I've always said, it's mankind's heart that needs to evolve.  Yes, get rid of oppressive and unevolved belief systems, and it would help tremendously, but the vacuum would quickly be filled with something else that would be used to justify hatred, greed, and every other negative human trait.

So fuck it, let's smoke a big fatty and go bowling!!!

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil, that takes religion.

Can't help but plug another Sam Harris vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqyTSSPIUF4&feature=related

And sorry Homonid I don't agree that he wants to blow up the middle east.
Paraphrasing a direct quote by him. "We can either fight the war of ideas or we can fight a real war. The war of ideas is not being waged because of Political Correctness. It is no coincidence that we don't see Buddhist suicide bombers. This is unique to Islam because of specific passages in the Koran. But it is taboo to mention that."

Quote from: BikerDude on September 05, 2012, 01:26:31 PM

Quote from: Hominid on September 05, 2012, 08:52:29 AM

What I fear though, is that if the vehicle of religion was removed for all these haters, war mongers, oppressors, and abusers to use as their means to propagate their agendas, would they not find some other means of expressing their un-evolved, greedy, self-centeredness?  It's my understanding of human nature that makes me fearful of the Hitlers of the world.

I've always said, it's mankind's heart that needs to evolve.  Yes, get rid of oppressive and unevolved belief systems, and it would help tremendously, but the vacuum would quickly be filled with something else that would be used to justify hatred, greed, and every other negative human trait.

So fuck it, let's smoke a big fatty and go bowling!!!

Quote

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil, that takes religion.

Can't help but plug another Sam Harris vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqyTSSPIUF4&feature=related

And sorry Homonid I don't agree that he wants to blow up the middle east.
Paraphrasing a direct quote by him. "We can either fight the war of ideas or we can fight a real war. The war of ideas is not being waged because of Political Correctness. It is no coincidence that we don't see Buddhist suicide bombers. This is unique to Islam because of specific passages in the Koran. But it is taboo to mention that."

Well then dude, you should read his book "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason". I'm in the middle of it... he makes more than a strong suggestion that before we get nailed by a nuke from the middle east, that we should probably strike first. His words, not mine...

Good read?
I may have to check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtN4-lwnHX4&feature=related

One thing hardcore religious folks also do not like to hear is this...
The only three reasons they are praying to an Israelite desert deity Yahwe (which was basically a war deity before it became their only god, which tells you a lot, if you think about it) are blood, steel and dumb luck. Luck. Nothing else.
For a while in the Roman Empire, the biggest rival to underground Christianity was Mithraism, whose main object of reverence, Mithras(originally a Persian god), had quite a few similarities to Christ.
If not for Constantine, the same people might be praying to Mithras these days...
And the fact that some people will want to kill you if you point that out to them is enough...
A bit of a history buff myself...and if you are, there is no way you could still take the Abrahamic Faiths seriously ever again...

As for Harris, while I do not totally share his opinion on free will (i.e. that we, according to him, have none), I have to commend that he argues not from a perspective of wanting to be right but from one of compassion, arguing against the Abrahamic religions because their dogma is bad for us. Also, he's quite the spiritual sort, actually

One thing hardcore religious folks also do not like to hear is this...
The only three reasons they are praying to an Israelite desert deity Yahwe (which was basically a war deity before it became their only god, which tells you a lot, if you think about it) are blood, steel and dumb luck. Luck. Nothing else.
For a while in the Roman Empire, the biggest rival to underground Christianity was Mithraism, whose main object of reverence, Mithras(originally a Persian god), had quite a few similarities to Christ.
If not for Constantine, the same people might be praying to Mithras these days...
And the fact that some people will want to kill you if you point that out to them is enough...
A bit of a history buff myself...and if you are, there is no way you could still take the Abrahamic Faiths seriously ever again...

As for Harris, while I do not totally share his opinion on free will (i.e. that we, according to him, have none), I have to commend that he argues not from a perspective of wanting to be right but from one of compassion, arguing against the Abrahamic religions because their dogma is bad for us. Also, he's quite the spiritual sort, actually

I've heard all that as well... ever heard of a documentary called "Zeitgeist"? It covers all the Christian history, basically stating that it's derivative of more ancient religions. All the same stories, just the names are changed.  The movie's worth a look.  http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Edit: I'm referring to the 2007 movie.