Crisis In Dudetopia.

[meekon5]

Crisis In Dudetopia.

Or why I nearly handed in my bowling shoes but didn't.

I wrote (hand wrote, so that tells you how perturbed I was) last Friday, on the train, as the result of what I saw as a huge schism forming in Dudeism, because of a couple of events that occurred in the forum, I will discuss these later.

I'm sorry if people feel much of this has been covered already but I have had to sit back and think over some very important decisions.

Mostly should I stay or should I go.

I also apologise for the length of this (I know some of you have very short spans of attention, I know I have most of time).

Introduction.

Some of you will have noticed I have not commented on such threads as "Bringing Dudeism Forward" and similar.

I have start to compose posts many times but scrapped them as inadequate.



When I was a teenager a girlfriend at the time said a very clever thing:
"Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's right!"
This is all (as usual) in my humble opinion.



Now some of the flames have died down a bit, I must thank Ed for re-lighting the fire under the Dudeist site (things had started to get a bit quiet recently).

Also having taken this thread ("Bringing Dudeism Forward") away and spent time studying and annotating it on the train I feel I have considered the arguments and this is (of course) is just my humble opinion.



I always described myself (here from my blog):

As a Zen Existentialist Taoist Post-modernist Pagan I spend a lot of time contradicting myself. The Taoist sees all things as an aspect of the interaction of the Tao (yin and yang), the Zen side sees it all as illusion, the Existentialist tends to brood a lot, the Post-modernist doesn't understand what all this fuss is being made about a bunch of text, and the Pagan wonders why the Gods are picking on me again.

To which I would add now:

And the Dudeist side says "Fuck it all, lets go bowling!"

A Problem Perceived.

Unlike Cakebelly (though I admire his passion) I am not going to storm off, I am going to stand and fight for my point of view in the face (of what I thought) was great adversity.

I also find Caesar Dude may have gone as well.

This makes my heart heavy. If anyone has contact with either (or if either were to read this) I would hope they both could be persuaded to return. It is in diversity of opinion and people that our strength lies not in homogeneity.

I was going to say:

At the end of this I am going to place my  bowling shoes on the counter, settle my bar bill with Gary, and I am going to do something that I find very difficult to do, I am going to log off.

Maybe for a day, maybe for the weekend, maybe for longer.

But too many have left for this to still be a good thing to do.

Now Comes The Reason Why?

I have lurked, I have pondered. I have read the shouting, the ranting, and the discussion, on where Dudeism is going next.

Discussion vs Argument.

All right this is a theme I have expounded before.

There has been an almost absolute denigration of the word "Argument" (much like the use of the word Naughty in Shakespeare). Now-a-days "Argument" is generally used to denote shouting, a row, even something on the edge of violence. When really it means to discuss, to balance, to pit one point of view against another to try to measure the value of both or either in order to reasonably test the validity of both points of view.

I like to argue my point of view here. I enjoy my reasoning being tested, my opinion questioned.

This is a good argument.

The Idler Effect.

cc is right in a way. I was at the Idler (yet to write up my impressions of that).

There were some very odd people present.

One group of people sat there and giggled like school children through the whole first half then pissed off during half time. I think once they realised we were actually really serious about what we were doing.

Another guy could not talk to me without a condescending smirk on his face, and asked me a question he asked Oliver later about political orientation of the movement. I answered that I just thought politics and economics were distractions.

Another gentlemen (seeing I was wearing my turban) made comments about my tribe, then turned his eyes up when he asked about the Dudeist Patches I was wearing, I had to say that christians sell you crucifixes (and Indulgences).

I did feel a bit like we'd been rolled out as a bit of a freak circus (if that wasn't the Idlers intention I think a lot of the people there thought it was).

I do get a similar reaction from members of my family, for instance one of my brothers is prone to ask "what religion are you this week?", but that's his own short sighted misinterpretation, I should re-but with "Who are you marrying this week?" (all right he has only been married twice and is still with the last one) but that would be unkind so I just bear it and smile.

I do actually wonder how the whole thing would have been taken if we had all turned up in force wearing suits (Oliver Included).

Two Strikes, And Heading For A Third.

It was not until two things happened a couple of weeks ago on the forum that my resolve to post on this finally solidified.

Strike One.

I know this has a lot of discussion and posting but this is my point of view on the incident, and my initial reaction.

The first problem has to be a feeling of absolute incredulity at the locking of a post for being "off thread". I don't blame Thinkingdude for his naivety, his unfamiliarity to the forum, or even blame Oliver with his wish to do the right thing, to attempt to make the forum like other such places.

But I challenge anyone to find a thread in the entire site that has remained "on subject". That has always been the joy of this forum.

Personally my own thought process is so tangential that it branches so often that it eventually twists so far back on itself that I make the point I was trying to make in the first place.

This forum has always been the online equivalent of an evening round a mates with a few joints, a few oat sodas, and a pizza.

Locked discussions for me just because they are "off thread" is the antithesis of the dudeist forum.

Holy Names.

I have to admit I was more than disappointed when it was decided to remove the different levels of attainment name because I quite liked the title "Duddha".

I fully understood the reasoning. I feel it myself. The annoyance at new members who call themselves "The" this dude, "The one and only" that Dude. It annoys me because they appear to represent themselves as better, more important Dudes than anyone else, have some greater understanding of Dudeism than the rest of us.

Then I also subscribe to the Erisian ideal of taking the biggest, grandest, most important, ridiculous titles possible.

In all honesty I must admit some of the anger is at them representing themselves as better Dudes than I.

Lebowskist vs Dudeist.

I too like to make a differentiation between the Lebowskists (or Lebowskiist) and the Dudeists.

The former being those that endlessly quote the film without form or understanding of any spiritual content, the latter attempting to find some meaning to life, using TBL as a sign post on the way to better understanding.

I see no need to make any split between these groups, the one actually feeding the other. I see the Lebowskist like the lay preachers of some other religions, quoting the text but not really understanding the meaning.

I'm just happy to have this little corner to discuss

For instance consider Buddhists. generally there are lots of flavours, lots of bowing and burning incense before huge statues. then there's the Zen school, small, an insignificant percentage of the whole, but essentially important because they cut through all the bullshit (see their use of the Diamond Sutra as one of their primary texts). One of the major groups to bring Buddhism to the west.

I like the idea of the Lebowskist because it reminds me that you can make a lot of noise without making any sense.

I see the Lebowskist like the church going big hat wearing "good" christian, who attend every Sunday without fail. Their god must really love them.

My hope is that the Lebowskists all will become enlightened eventually as will the grass and the flowers.

Strike Two.

Strike two is not actually a strike but a question. A question that struck a lot deeper than the original asker probably meant.

The second incident that happened is for me is the crux of the whole matter.

I don't blame the individual involved because things have been pretty tense around the forum recently.

I recommend you listen to this it is very scary (originally posted here by BikerDude).

Now I made a comment based on the content about new movements in Dudeism infiltrating business and politics then rising up in a final Dudeist revolution.

It was at this point I was asked "How in God's name do you possibly get that?" (Bikerdude please don't worry this is not about you, your question was just the catalyst I needed).

Now though this question occurred due to a misinterpretation of humour, it is the answer to it that is absolutely fundamental to the whole problem I have been having.

"How in God's name do you possibly get that?"

I have to thank  Bikerdude for his question:

...How in God's name do you possibly get that?...

It came from that place, that person, inside me that is fundamental to my practice and understanding of Dudeism.

Yes we have often riffed about a sarcasm font, but truly I believe before posting anything to the forum you (I) should first (either physically or metaphorically) put on your hat with the bells.

It came from the little child within me, the malicious little hobbit, the fool within me.

At the Idler the eastern European gentleman behind me, as he left, made a comment about everyone on stage needing to grow up. I tried to make some clever comment about it being better to see the world through the eyes of a child, than treat the world childishly (funny how things always come out better in retrospect than at the time). I don't think he understood me, I know he missed the point of Dudeism.

The fool that begins to take themselves too seriously just becomes another idiot in the crowd.

This is what I fear we are doing now.

We should get over ourselves.

So the bigger religions are picking on us because we are the new kid in the playground.

Fuck them (and the Atheists)!

From my point of view we had forgotten a fundamental principle of what we are.

We are the essential fool in the court that stands up when no-one else will and tells the king he's wrong.

The more they laugh at us the more we should play the fool. We are they holy idiots who exist to point out how silly the other religions are being by being sillier ourselves.

Admittedly I do see the arguments that at times we do appear to be a bit anti-christian, and perhaps we may start to expand some of our terminology to include things like Dudmitzvahs. It is difficult being in christian western society the first point of our venom tends to focus on christianity.

Why Didn't I Leave?

http://dudeism.com/smf/index.php?topic=2591.0

Renewed my faith in the what we do here and how we roll.

I think I may be around for a little longer.

Simon Kennedy,
(AKA meekon5)
Genuine and Authorised Pope.

[Tripnastic]

The fool that begins to take themselves too seriously just becomes another idiot in the crowd.

This is what I fear we are doing now.

We should get over ourselves.

So the bigger religions are picking on us because we are the new kid in the playground.

Fuck them (and the Atheists)!

From my point of view we had forgotten a fundamental principle of what we are.

We are the essential fool in the court that stands up when no-one else will and tells the king he's wrong.

The more they laugh at us the more we should play the fool. We are they holy idiots who exist to point out how silly the other religions are being by being sillier ourselves.

[cckeiser]

So There You Are!
I wasn't worried...nope...not worried at all.

[DigitalBuddha]

This is all a part of the history of Dudeism that may well be the topic of a PhD dissertation in the centuries to come. Some Dr. Somebody will be asked "so, what is your PhD in?" Dr. Somebody will answer "In early Dudeist Philosophy." The inquisitor will answer "Oh, I see, fabulous stuff, man!"

Of course this conversation will take place from Dr. Somebody's office at the Lunar University on the Moon just South of Armstrong Park International Monument to the first moon landing and a new colleague who is on one of the city size orbiting space stations around the Earth via a VCS (Virtual Communications System) where each person is in a virtual environment (together) such as an Earth park sitting on a bench together on a nice summer day in China or any other environment they choose to be in like a French Cafe' "staying and enjoying their coffee."

PS.... M5 dude, awesome picture! And, your words are greatly respected, dude.

[Busmum]

lovely words meekon, and damn glad to hear from you...



...and as i mentioned before, goddess trumps pope!

however, now that i look at that pic all blown up, i look rather like one of them thar "beings of light", don't i?

do we have an "aliens created mankind" thread handy?

[Andrea Da Fino]

Far out mate, far out. I've been out of the forum for around a year, for personal issues, so I've lost a lot of the conversations going around. But I've read a couple of things so I have a vague idea of what's going or gone on.

Anyway, far out. Being extremely uptight while thinking to be extremely cool and relaxed is something that can happen, ask a nihilist if he's a nihilist and he'll answer "of course not" and then he'll go searching for a pair of scissors.

I think that one of the reasons why some people doesn't understand in what conditions we're in is that they don't really grasp a clear message of who we are. We can do something about it but on the other side it's hard to describe water if it's contained in a lot of different places. Or is it not? Well, there is also the What is Dudeism page which tells everything needed, more or less. Maybe I'm not that intelligent but I find Dudeism a pretty simple religion and I like it this way. And it's also easy to remember. Not that I don't like to dudely discuss different point of view, otherwise we would be no different from those who got the Inquisition or those who stone people for their misbehavior.

Loosing you the forum would have been a poorer place so thanks for remaining here with us. And the holy idiot thing, well, pure poetry imho. F***ng A!

And btw I find the whole duddha-dude-amateur thing coming from a bit of an uptight point of view, but that's just my opinion and understand why the forumdude did it, as well why for a while that topic you mentioned has been locked. To calm things down. And also because it wasn't such a great example of Dudeism principles in practice, I would have done the same. This is a private residence but it's also a public place.

Anyway, to end the blathering, deep thinker you were and deep thinker you are. Far out mang!

Ops, I was gsm in a previous life. 

[Rev. Ed C]

:')

Been a long while since I used that crying-happy-tears smiley, anywhere!
And to be honest, that's all I need to say on the matter!

[Pancake Waitress]

This is really, really good, meekon. Fucking brilliant, actually.

I'm just a member of a couple months or so, but nonetheless, I've seen a lot of change in the forums in even just that time. I'm still processing my thoughts on the whole shootin' match, and catching up with the chatting on here from this past week (I don't know how I got so far behind! Caesar Dude left, too? ), but ... Feh. Think I'll do some more processing and then maybe offer an opinion, whether it's wanted or not. 

I just wanted to say something, even if my thoughts aren't yet fully formed, because Dudeism and Abideism and the discussions here have become very important to me. I guess maybe I just wanted to second Tripnastic's sentiment:

[Andrea Da Fino]

Your opinions are wanted and welcomed. We are not a bunch of fucking uptights and your opinion is as important as that of anyone else. 

[Hominid]

What meekon said...

[DigitalBuddha]

"Never waste a good crisis"

[Andrea Da Fino]

Actually crisis is not the preferred nomenclature, clarification needed, misunderstanding, too much testosterone, an undudely moment...... It happens to the best of us to be a moron sometimes.

And anyway after a crisis things get clearer and it could also be a healing crisis.That's what happens often in Naturopathy.

Blathering, sorry.

[DigitalBuddha]

Actually crisis is not the preferred nomenclature, clarification needed, misunderstanding, too much testosterone, an undudely moment...... It happens to the best of us to be a moron sometimes.

And anyway after a crisis things get clearer and it could also be a healing crisis.That's what happens often in Naturopathy.

Blathering, sorry.

Actually, my point was "when life tosses you a lemon, make lemonade."  That could definitely be a tenet of Dudeism IMHO.

[Hominid]

Agreed. The dudeism ethos is pretty simple. No need to over-think it.

[Andrea Da Fino]

Actually dude, tenets is not anymore the preferred nomenclature. Attitude maybe.  I love that quote, Dale Carnegie I suppose, right? That surely ties all the attitude to life of Dudeism together. Far out DB. Maybe with a bit of vodka.

Hominid, mark it 8, but a little bit of not exhausting thinking is cool, imho.  To keep our mind a bit occupied.