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Quote from: Hominid on March 06, 2013, 10:43:04 AMWell, there are some people that do indeed consider it a religion; some of those that penned the original Humanist Manifesto. Interesting shit dude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_ManifestoHumanist Manifesto III states in its opening sentence: "Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.", emphasis mine. That's what I'm going with, not because it fits my argument, but because things do change over time. Even xtianity has changed over time as various rulers have rewritten the New Testament to suit their aims. And these days there are dozens of version of the damned thing.Ennyhoo, I'm really not trying to be contrary. Maybe it's just a natural talent?
Well, there are some people that do indeed consider it a religion; some of those that penned the original Humanist Manifesto. Interesting shit dude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto
Kirk was reading the Declaration of Independence. Written by Jefferson.I'd point to the "Jeffeson Humanist Society"http://jefferson-society.com/I'd say that the founding fathers were motivated by the principles that became Humanism even if imperfectly.
Quote from: BikerDude on March 06, 2013, 02:13:32 PMKirk was reading the Declaration of Independence. Written by Jefferson.I'd point to the "Jeffeson Humanist Society"http://jefferson-society.com/I'd say that the founding fathers were motivated by the principles that became Humanism even if imperfectly.Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the founders were all dirty rotten greedy bastards, but in the main they were. Jefferson was a fairly enlightened dude and gets the lion's share of the attention because he was one of the few relatively honorable dudes in the bunch. Any positive qualities we ascribe to him, or any of the few others who were fairly enlightened and relatively honorable, though, don't automatically convey to the rest. And it can't be overlooked by anyone being honest with himself that the freedom and equality that Jefferson spoke of was intended for wealthy white men only. Even when his peers sought to cut the slaves a little slack, Jefferson stood strongly opposed. And when it came time to incorporate some human rights into the Constitution it wasn't Jefferson who did it. Madison did. And was a slave owner, too.Ain't no humanists owning slaves, man. It's just inconsistent as hell with the whole philosophy.
I dunno, the Founding Fathers and the constitution and bill of rights are of their time and place. As good as it is and as enlightened as they were, it is still not a permanent solution, and I along with many others would say the constitution and BoR are really just rough drafts for the UDHR.There are really two problems with our democracy, one, too much money in there, really should have public funded only elections, with a three month lead up, not 4 years campaigning. And second, the populace is full of idiots. The uniformed or misinformation cause more damage to us than the greedy.Our politics are not bad when you consider their progress in humanism, what really needs humanist values is our capitalist system. The form of capitalism we use now is apathetic towards everything except financial profit, it has no soul and loves no one. What is needed is to give capitalism a conscience. For that I refer to the work of E F Shumacher.
I think I'll take him at his word.
I don't believe anything that the founding fathers spoke of are to blame for making us a democracy of the wealthy.
We no longer have anything resembling a government by the people.
Yeah see, what the Biker Dude said. We are a republic, true, but a republic, by definition, is a democracy, a representative one. I would argue our form of government is not a "bad" one, rather useful actually, we have accomplished many great things using it, civil rights, emancipation ect. The problem is the "average" citizen has surrendered their influence because of irrational fears or greed. That or they are just willfully ignorant wastes.
Quote from: revgms on March 08, 2013, 09:43:53 AMYeah see, what the Biker Dude said. We are a republic, true, but a republic, by definition, is a democracy, a representative one. I would argue our form of government is not a "bad" one, rather useful actually, we have accomplished many great things using it, civil rights, emancipation ect. The problem is the "average" citizen has surrendered their influence because of irrational fears or greed. That or they are just willfully ignorant wastes. And the things you mention where achieved when people were willing to fight for them. And people were able to speak out and fight for their rights because of our freedoms.
We are a republic, true, but a republic, by definition, is a democracy, a representative one.
Nope, the dictionaries agree a republic is a type where the power is in the hands of the populace, either directly or indirectly through democratic action.
Vagina
But here I am rambling again.
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