The problem with coming in heavy with weapons is the lack of a figurehead.  We took down several members of the Taliban.  Those countries who harbored them, still harbor people who hate us.  We can either go back and forth, or... what?  Wipe out the entire country?  What's the right answer?

Maybe the answer is to legalise weed and grow it in Afghanistan. Once people get a stable economy they tend to be less radical. Look at Vietnam. What a fucking wast of time and lives all that aggression was. They've never been a problem since the end of the war, even though they won.

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on October 01, 2012, 03:47:37 AM

Quote from: Stever on September 30, 2012, 05:46:54 PM

its like my opinion man,that the solution will not come from Obama-Bin-Laden,who kisses the ass of regimes like they have in China...

The US has been licking China's ass for decades. After Tianamen? the government restored 'most favored nation' status after about three minutes.
What China has done to Tibet is way over the line but the West doesn't do a thing. Then we go gettin all 'ass-kickin' about some Ay-rabs in Themiddleoffuckinnowhereistan. It's totally out of balance.

Don't you get it dude? We ARE the Chinese. I'll let you think that one over.

I guess we are the Chinese in the sense that the general German population WERE the Nazis - if you allow something evil to exist and gain advantage from it then you are a part of that evil. Is that what you meant dude? Could be out of my depth here.

Uh. Mang. (shaking head here).
I hope some people realize the truth:

1. Iranians aren't Arabs, nor did they attack us on 9/11, nor are they related in any way to those who did
2. Iranians were our friends, and had a very western and western-friendly society, with a democratically-elected leader... until they refused to sell oil to British petroleum below fair market value. BP then asked Eisenhower to use our CIA to overthrow Mossadeq (our friend), which we did do. We then installed a brutal dictator in power, who proceeded to kill many, and imprison/torture those he didn't happen to kill. Iran was forced to live under the Shah for decades, which gave birth to the fundamentalist movement throughout the ENTIRE REGION. This turned longtime friends of America into enemies of America.
3. America further inflamed the situation by arming both sides of the iran-Iraq war, indicating to all countries of the region that America would prefer that they all just kill each other off, so that we can access the oil.
4. We then used Aghans to fight a proxy war against the Soviet Union and, when they won the war, we abandoned the Afghans to rabid fundamentalism, against advice from many respected people who advised that it would result in big problems for America.
5. While there is absolutely no justification for the mass murder that occurred on 9/11, items 2-4 were major contributing factors to why America was attacked. You can't establish a foreign policy that includes overthrowing governments, installing brutal puppet regimes that then kill/imprison/torture their citizens for decades, arming both sides of conflicts, and the many other examples of such egregious behaviors that I did not include for the sake of brevity, and not expect to get hit back.
6. Might doesn't make right. Never has. Never will. This type of thinking helped to create the groupthink that led to such misadventures as the 1953 overthrow of Mossadeq, and similar US-CIA led coups that have occurred throughout Central/South America and elsewhere. It also led to illegal wars, launched because of false-flag operations (Vietnam/Gulf of Tonkin incident), and a fraudulent preemptive war like OIF... waged with the intent to establish permanent US bases in the region which we have been trying to do since the late 1950s or so.
7. While the US might have prevailed in WWII, we didn't win. What we did do assimilate European fascism into our governmental system, where it remains to this very day... alive and well and living in the GOP. I quote the 33rd Vice President of the United States,
"The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power...
Still another danger is represented by those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion...
The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection." - Vice President Henry A. Wallace, 1944

I quote Betram Gross,
"A few years ago, William E. Shirer, whose monumental The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich certainly qualifies him as a penetrating observer, commented that America may be the first country in which fascism comes to power through democratic elections... The main source of this new-style despotism is not the frenetics of the extreme right - the know-nothings, the private militias, the Ku Klux Klan, or the openly neo-fascist parties. Nor is it the crazies of the extreme left. True, either of these might play facilitating, tactical or triggering roles. But the new order is likely to emerge rather as an outgrowth of powerful tendencies within the establishment itself. It would come neither by accident nor as the product of any central conspiracy. It would emerge, rather, through the hidden logic of capitalist society's transitional growth and the groping responses to mounting crisis in a dwindling capitalist world."  " - Bertram Gross from Friendly Fascism; American social scientist, Professor of Political Science, bureaucrat

Supporting America's Taliban, those extremist rightwing fascists (mostly evangelical Xtians and Jews, the PNAC types) that have seized control of the levers of government, is merely condemning America to more of the same. Yes... sorry to break the news to the Glenn Beck crowd, but if you think fascism = socialism, you need to unplug and pick up a book or two. Perhaps go back to school, where they teach that fascism is at the extreme right of the political spectrum (because IT IS).

Four years ago, fascists in the American government led by W., sought to settle all their score in one fell swoop. They want to end Social Security, Medicare and all other social safety nets. They want to kill all the Unions (and are currently attacking them in 5+ states). They want to kill the minimum wage and in fact reset the wage scale to pennies on the dollar, creating an employer's market. They also wanted to effect the largest transfer of wealth since the great depression, from the poor and middle class, to the rich. They sought to do all this by tanking the American economic system. That is why W. removed almost all oversight and enforcement from Wall Street, while also pushing hard increases in home ownership via bad loans that they knew would default, causing a bubble to burst. On and on it went. They almost succeeded.

Those who think that fascist leadership in the White House would make the world easier to abide... well, uh... hey... that's just, like, your opinion, man. I don't abide fascists. Their aggression will not stand, man. This isn't 'NAM. There are rules.