Rev. Al, you're fucking correct. Mark it 8. Probably a lot has to do with how people see things, our personal point of view, or judgement. For me organization doesn't mean something necessarily bad, and I understand that, at least most of the times, to reach a goal a bit of organization is needed otherwise we risk to wander like a child in the middle of a movie, no real effect outside the net. As an example, there is the kiva lending thing going on, there is a difference if every ordained dudeist priest lends 1 buck per month or some sometimes lend 5 bucks when it happens. In the first example the kiva lending thing would have 100.000 bucks per month, in the second it can have 1.000 bucks, or none. An organized effort always wins; I'm using the word effort because I don't know a better one, not for its exhausting meaning. 

Dudeism embraces almost everything so everything can be seen as part of Dudeism. But the Church of the Latter-Day Dude is another thing, imdo. Being a Dudeist is one thing and being a Dudeist Priest is another one. The certificate isn't the only difference, again imdo. As you correctly say this is Olly and Dwayne business though. 

For some of us only the idea of having someone else ""above"" sounds uncomfortable but I personally don't find that organization and having a dudely llama or the archdudeship mines my freedom. Actually "too much openness" would sooner or later take us to get a dude cannibal, or a dude rapist. We, as laid down taoists just need to find the correct balance, which means not no organization at all, and means not being totally organized and uptights. Balance means balance, that is both of them like a white russian, half total freedom and half organization shaked well. 

That's Taoism and that's Dudeism: balance and harmony, not just what we like and nothing else. There is a different point of view between those who see Dudeism as a bunch of "self-centered" priests and those who see it as a loosely organized religion, both points of view are right and both points of view have the same "right" to be part of Dudeism. Or are we gonna take the same uptight trail of other religions in the future in any direction where some people tells the others what is right and what is wrong? One of the reasons why so many dudes leave the forum after a while, imdo.

Anyway, I've lost a bit my train of thought, but as you say there are just two in the world who can say what belongs to the Dudeist Church and whatsnot, than we can agree or disagree and even decide to be a freelance dude, which is cool anyway.

I think there is a difference between Dudeism and the church, Dudeism is the spiritual philosophy and the church is the church. Not all buddist become monks, and not all buddist monks are organized in the same way, yet they are all buddists. And in any case probably everyone misses the point of Buddha. Does it all make sense?

DB, you're right and correct. But, forgive me I can't resist, what if looking inside I find also Walter?     

No, I believe the best way to "engage" is simply to "be".  You can't convince most people that their way of life is wrong and that your way of life is right any more than they could convince you the opposite is true (besides, that goes back to the control issues I wrote about above).  Be an influence.  Let them come to their own realizations in their own time.  Let them ask the questions before you tell them the answers.  Don't make it happen, let it happen.

Could it not be said that engaging dudeism is as simple as recognizing and embracing the inner dude in us all? It is not something to strive for, achieve or "learn," but rather it is becoming aware. In fact, striving to engage dudeism is an oxymoron in that striving itself is not an act of slacking and more or less anti-dude. There is "dude" in us all waiting to express itself, one only needs to discover it IMHO. We are the inner dude. It could be stated thus; I am dude, therefore I am, or; there is dudeness, I am that dude.

The Dude is, the Dude does not do.

The Dude abides, the Dude does not engage.

One does not become the Dude, one realises one is the Dude.


(teeshirt from the daily mash)

DB, m5, Rev. Ed, far out and mark it 8. That's why I like this beach community, deep thinking, different points of view, laid-back/easy attitude. Isn't it great to talk in this way? About such interesting issues? I dig your style dudes. 

For sure, my input is just like my opinion, man.

One thing to add is that when we discuss these various interpretations of what Dudeism is, we sometimes make the assumption that was DB is saying, or Rev. Ed is saying, or what m5 is saying is that THEIR interpretation and opinion is THE take on Dudeism. Rev. Ed's is more proactive, engaging, and socially responsible. We do indeed need people to produce. Then we need the slackers who buy what is produced. It's a rainbow; a combination of the various colours of Dudeism is what's needed, not a single interpretation that is THE only interpretation. Of course, all within the bounds of agreed upon principles and practices of a zen approach to life...

Make sense?

Damn straight, H-man!  One thing I've always said about Dudeism is that it's a fantastic philosophical melting pot.  Whenever I write an article for the DP I much prefer people to respond and chip in, because either there's something I missed, or something I never considered and it enriches the whole point.

Dudeism is not about one man's vision, or copying the life of one man, it's about people throwing in opinions and ideas around the spirit of Dudeism.  Listening to others and sounding out our own ideas and opinions can only enrich ourselves and each other.  As long as we're not shooting wide of the goal and bouncing off the realm of the undude, it's all good

If you don't bat the ball around occasionally, it makes for a really dull game of cricket

Quote from: Rev. Ed C on November 25, 2011, 04:23:12 AM

If you don't bat the ball around occasionally, it makes for a really dull game of cricket

Good thread dudes. Now that we've solved the world's problems, all we need is another flame war. Where's the fundies when you need them?  ;-)

Careful what you wish for!